Dilema

[=DBA=Ronin]

Well as you all may or may not know, I have been in touch with a local software company about a job. I had 2 interviews already and today the guy called me back and all but formally offered me the job. I have to go in tomorrow morning to meet with some people and iron out some details.

Sounds good right? Well there is dilema which I must ponder over and quickly.

Basically he said that after viewing my resume and qualifications, I am purely entry level in the job market...and its hard to disagree with that...even though I know a lot more than may appear on paper. Thusly, because of this designation, they are only offering me $20k a year to start, and within the first year after they get a feel of what I can accomplish, this could climb all the way up to a whopping $23k. Also, they are rather determined that I informally commit to at least staying there for 3-5 years.

I can make more than this working at McDonalds ffs, and in fact $20k/yr is barely enough to even live off now adays. If I have no assurance that this will drastically change sometime soon, Im not so sure I can take this job on account they are looking for the 3-5yr commitment.

So I am wondering what you all may think of this. God knows 20k is a hell of a lot more than what I am making now, but if I get roped into a job thats going to pay shit for the next three years its pretty hard to jump at the opportunity. The flip side is that not having any job for the last 6 months is doing me a lot more harm than good, and I would hate to miss the chance to at least start getting some experience.

Anyhooot...if anyone has any advice for me plz let me know what you think. Thanks.

[CDSaint]

i say take the job cause its still better than working at McD's where you only learn the right amount of time to make the fries. Its better than being jobless and i think that you know more than what they have seen on paper and you can impress them in less than a year's time frame and get that extra 3k. as far as the years they want you to commit with the company, well it still gives you a job for that length of time rather than being jobless longer than you have been. that's my half imposed opinion atm since i don't know what else to say. i'm sure i'll think up of something else once someone else gives you helpful ideas. then i'll jump in on the wagon then.;) oh unless stuffit gets you a job and offers you more $$$ then fuck it and go to cali...;)

[shanKs]

Man I tell ya,

Working for the government I've experienced that whole contract issue. I'd like you to find out what kind of committment that really is. Now if they're talking, " you need to pay us $XX.XX if you leave within the next year." I'd say fuck that. But if this is just an honor code thing I'd be all over that. Just be careful, I've had a few opportunities come my way like you describe and I haven't given them the time of day.

Anyhoo, do good tomorrow and the Jack will be flowing before you know it.

Love,

Teh Skanks.

Oh, btw, just to cheer you up I found this for ya.

Cheers!!!

http://www.packerpalace.com/palace02/neverbeen.html

[RuKuS]

What shanks said... Getting roped into a 20k a year for 3-5 years would definately suck.

Just tell em you know how to frag, they'll definately hook you up with 300k a year.

[Artis]

so as long as you dont have to sign a contract, take the job. i mean if you quit months or a year or however long down the road for a higher paying job, fuck them. people need money and if they arent paying you jack and you arent obligated with a contract and they still get pissed at you for leaving for a higher paying job with more opportunities then FUCK THEM!!!! if they require you to sign a contract or whatever saying you wont quit and if you do you owe them whatever then fuck it, keep looking. i know that would be hard but 20k is not very much and im not sure about the great state of wisconsin but in dallas/fort worth, texas 20k a year is just maybe enough to live on your own IF and only IF you have a rommmate sharing the bills. my theory is that once you start working for the rest of your life your loyalty and dedication to the company you work for only goes so far as how many opportunities they give you for advancement, how stable the job is and 1st and foremost how much it pays. beyond that, you dont owe them a gawd damned thing. any boss/employer who says you should stay in an extremely low paying job out of loyalty or whatever is a complete fucking asshole and is delusional. thats my two cents, sorry for being long winded. im pretty drunk now and think i did a fair job making my self seem intelligible.

[KegRun]

20k?????!!!

Ok..um..are you getting medical and dental with this? If not..then this is a fkn joke and they are fkn you in the ass. 20K is ghey bro. THat's less than 2k a month. And that 20K is gonna get taxed also.

I say no man. NO NO NO. Fuck that. Specialy if they want you to commit. NO NO NO.

What you should do when you walk in..tell them..that you know what the fuck you are doing. You are worth more than 20K. You'll be able to help this company out with the knowledge that you will be able to provide them. You've been doing this stuff for ::add years here::. Fuck 23K also. Ask for 25. I'm almost sure they'll try to bargain with you. If you are happy with 23K...then take that. Not 20 man. 20 is a slap in the face. Tell them that there is no way you can live..and i mean actually live with 20. You have bills and a life and you don't want to be living with mom when your 30 and you just got a bonus making your yearly income after taxes 19K.

Now..if you are able to get out of signing some stupid contract...then fuck it..do it. Get the experience while you are still looking for something else. Just don't stop looking for something else and get stuck doing that job.


I mean shit...if they need proof of what you know..show them our Technical forum and some of the problems you've helped people out with ..lmao. There are only a few of you guys that actually answer questions and help people in there!

Really man..i think they are fucking with you. I don't know how you acted in your meetings with them. You mighta led to a pushover who knew what he was talking about. So they might be trying to get a good worker for cheap. Seriously bro...I would not work for less than 30 man. AT FKN LEAST. I know when I get out I'm striving for 80 or more, but I'd settle for 50 until I was able to get a better job.


Basically man....don't get fkd in the ass Ronin.

[BuddhaMan]

Difference is you have some large scale LAN/WAN experience and your CCNA (if I remember right). Steve doesn't have any certs (yet).

[KegRun]

True man. But that's why I'm saying he should ask for at least 30K and see if he can bargain into like 25k. You know as well as I do...20K aint shit. Specially if he gets no benefits and SPECIALLY if he has to sign a contract. 20K after taxes will be like what..17K? That's just shitty. I'm just trying to look out for Ronin.

[=DBA=Ronin]

well im going in in about 10 minutes to talk some more with the guy and a few other ppl. Its not exclusivley 20K...they also have a pretty decent benefit package included with that. Im not signing shit if it means im going to be stuck at something like that for 3 years. I think they arent looking for a formal contract on the timeline, more of just an informal comitment. They cant expect anyone to live off that Im sure. I dunno...we'll see how it goes.

[Unforgiven]

no offense but i think your expectations are unrealistic. you have been out of werk for a long period of time and you have yet to really apply your degree. a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper with your name neatly inscribed on it! until you get your foot in the door in a position to apply your knowledge you should really be expecting this type of salary. i know you are a reasonable guy but i just think you are thinking about this all wrong. i say hell yes, take the job and tell them you will start on new years day if thats what it takes! as for the commitment thing, i think thats more of a general promise to them that you will at least commit that much time to the company. at my current job the owner made me make a verbal 2 year commitment because he didnt like fast turnover and thought it disrupted continuity of the group. after our 2 years we were free to do as we pleased but as a favor more or less we committed to 2 years. i think thats what they are asking you to do. i dunno truss, i just think you really need to get your foot in the door and this is a good way. you have your sights set extremely high and i know from talking to you in #werk that your expectations of what kind of job you should look for are pretty steep. i think you need to step back and ask yourself...."is this good for my future?" if the answer is yes, then take the job. if that answer is ever "no" then bag it. you gotta earn your keep and this may be a good opportunity to do so. remember, just because you have a job, doesnt mean you cant actively seek another one.....i generally like my job, but i am constantly looking to better my salary by looking elsewhere, it also gives you good exposure and leverage too! good luck!

[=DBA=Ronin]

Thanks everyone for all your input.

I just got back from the interview and what a ringer it was. I met with the head of the quality assurance group and he drilled me on some technical aspects and how I deal with certain kinds of moral obligations. Then I met with the president of the company and he drilled me hard! (stfu you sick bastards). He went off of the personality profile results from all the tests I took in my first couple of visits there. He was basically probing my thought process and demeanor to make sure he wanted someone like me working for his company. It was very intensive and I wasn't expecting anything like that at all.

After that the lady from HR came back in the room. I discussed the issue of the 20k and the 3 years. The 3-5 year thing is not contractual, and they know very well that 20k for that long is unrealistic. The time frame is something they are just trying to get me to commit to with assurance, not a signature.

So the low down...they offered me the job starting at 24k. I have until 3pm to email her with my decision and I think I am going to go for it...for many of the reasons that most of you stated. I will start on the 5th for about 5 weeks of training and after that I will be working in the Cust. Service Dept. The money still isnt very much, but that is almost a mute point for me right now. I need to get the ball rolling somewhere and this seems as good of an opportunity as any.

[CDSaint]

congratulations steve. like i stated before its still better than flipping burgers and cooking the perfect fries! now you would officially be making about the same as K. :( ;)

[=DBA=Ronin]

I just sent out the email to accept the offer. I R back in the rat race.

[Artis]

congrats steve. now if i could only get a decent 8-5 job.

/me shakes fist

[=DBA=KanCer]

good job man... nose to the grind stone make us proud :( our steve is going out into the world :(

[BuddhaMan]

YAR!!!!

Good werk and good luck! Keep working on the A+ man! I'd think being hired without it, THEN getting it shows progression and will do nothing but help ya.

/me shudders @ Cust Serv Dept as I'm like Nick Burns when I do computer/LAN work.

Oh, by the way, YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!

[KegRun]

24!! Nice man. It's not the best in the world..but shit..it's about what I'm making the last 6 years and I'm doing aight. I'm sure you will get a raise also. Awesome man.