Only Love and Then Oblivion

[Artis]

http://www.ianmcewan.com/bib/articles/love-oblivion.html

ian mcewan is an amazing author. he has a new book out called 'saturday' and a few years ago published a great book called, 'atonement'. he wrote this article 4 days after 9/11 and it really reminded me of the tragedy and the utter sadness it seems like everyone felt throughout the western world. anyway, here it is. it isnt necessarily a political thing but i figured you guys would be interested in reading it.

[Artis]

did no one read this? wow. it isnt even that long. also this isnt really even political. it just describes what 9/11 was like.

[Pallidrone]

Even though I wasnt right there, I know what 9/11 felt like. I think a vast majority of people felt the horror and went through the trauma of that dreadful day. Revisiting it through someone else's eyes is not going to change that nor do most want to dredge up those feelings again.

That is why I also find those conspiracy theorist stories funny about the WTC being demolished.

From the jersey shore you could hear the impact of the second plane into the WTC. It was such a deafening sound. It a plane hit the WTC and made a sound like that, then how come when they collapsed, that same sound wasnt made? I would imagine that explosives would make the same billowing sound as a plane plowing into a building.

[Artis]

well i wasnt looking for this article but happened upon it and was very moved by it so i figured id post it. i understand if people dont want to revisit the whole thing.

[Pallidrone]

Rereading my post, I may have sounded a little arrogant in it. Sorry about that man, didnt mean to shit on your thread.

I cant speak for everyone, but I did read the article. It was well written and moving as well, but it is a rehash of all the other articles out there. A different perspective of the entire situation would be interesting for a debate.

Could you imagine what was going through some of the people's head that were at the top level of the WTC?

[Artis]

what does one do when they know they are going to die? make peace with god? notify a loved one? sit at your desk and fire up UT one last time? i dont really know.

[Beo]

I read it. Interesting article for sure. I agree with Palli as well.

[Pallidrone]

I couldnt even fathom what would be going through my head if I sat at the top floor and looked a hundred or so stories down and all I can see is fire and smoke rising up. I can see why some people jumped. I would much rather have the heart attack and die in mid air then be burned alive.

[Artis]

well when the building fell i would think the force of the crash would basically vaporize some people. i could be wrong on that though especially if you are above the fire. also, i was only sort of kidding about sitting down and playing a final game of UT or solitaire or something. really though, what do you do? it would seem that it is a dumbfounding thing to experience.

[Sasha]

I think your question was kinda answered in all the heart breaking phone calls we heard to loved ones as people knew they were going to die.. and those on the plane knew or felt they wouldn't make it. Hearing those voices make those calls totally ripped my heart out as if it weren't bad enough already. I think when people have a sense of when they are going to die they make peace as best they can with their loved ones and with God despite if they previously believed or not. People try to leave with no regrets and not leaving things unsaid.

I remember when my grandma went in for her 2nd open heart surgery. We had no reason to believe she would not make it, but during the surgery something had gone horribly wrong. Looking back, we noticed she made rounds to every single family member two days before she went to the hospital. She said everything she needed to say to everyone and made her peace..

[ROR_Destroyer]

Even though I wasnt right there, I know what 9/11 felt like. I think a vast majority of people felt the horror and went through the trauma of that dreadful day. Revisiting it through someone else's eyes is not going to change that nor do most want to dredge up those feelings again.

That is why I also find those conspiracy theorist stories funny about the WTC being demolished.

From the jersey shore you could hear the impact of the second plane into the WTC. It was such a deafening sound. It a plane hit the WTC and made a sound like that, then how come when they collapsed, that same sound wasnt made? I would imagine that explosives would make the same billowing sound as a plane plowing into a building.

A conspiracy Theory is a phrase. Two words.
Conspiracy :
An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
Theory :
An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Together Conspiracy theory means, the assumption or conjecture with no evidence of an illegal or wrongfull act happening.
What president bush has showed us about the hijackers were Conspiracy theorys. No evidence to support it, where are the box cutters? Where are the people who witnessed the box cutters?
Or in Iraq, why do you believe these are Nuclear facilities? What provoked the thought?
It was a theory, someone was doing something illegal. A conspiracy theory.

If you watch 911 in Plane Site by purchasing or downloading you will see the evidence that government isnt telling the truth. Weither it be terrorists or not, this program does not make that judgement. It shows you the inconsistencies in what they say happen. These people dont care who the hell you think did it. They show you the government didnt tell the truth. I dont think the government did it. But, i do think and know they lied to us, big time. Your missing out.

http://www.911inplanesite.com/


I will invite one of your most trusted friends over plliadrone who would never lie to you. I would secretly hold a gun to their head threating their life if they dont do as i say. I'll tell them to lie to you.
I'll grab a peice of paper, draw an image of an eagle then burn the evidence. The drawing will be recorded by camera. Your friend says its a lion.
Who do you believe, your friend whos never lied to you before (your also unaware of the fact his life is in danger so he lies). Or would you believe the video recorded evidence showing you an eagle?

[Pallidrone]

www.dictionary.com -
conspiracy theory
n.
A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.

Honestly, I would believe neither. If there is an inconsistent story there, I would rather make the opinion based off of my own expeirence with the paper then base my feelings off of what a video, that could be manipulated in any way, or shown in any way to distort the truth, or a friend a may never lie, but may also not know what the truth is. He may never lie, but what if he thought what he was telling was the truth? In theory, he would not be lieing, so again I rely on my own instincts and feelings on things, because in reality I am the only person I can truly ever trust.

Do I believe that the government told us the whole truth? No, I do not. Do I believe that they may have known that the strikes could have happened? Possibly.

Do I believe that they wanted this to happen and wanted to kill 5,000 American citizens to throw us into a war? NO, I do not.

Do I believe that they blow up, or used explosives to take down the towers? Not at all.

That day waas full of panic. Most people did not hear about the Van filled with explosives that was stopped on the Jersey Turnpike on it's way to the GWB. Most people did not hear about the box of explosives sitting on a subway train in Penn Station. There was so much panic, the government had to put a gag order on some of this stuff or else all of NY would have been a total war zone. They did what they had to do to try to restore order to a horrible day.

[|IB|NieN]

I had a debate with my friend, and he couldnt understand why so many people jumped to their deaths.

I explained to him that it was a simple fight or flight response. That, if he was in a room that was 250+ degrees and filled with smoke so bad that he couldnt breathe... he himself would have jumped to his death. He says he wouldnt.

I know I would have taken the window out. Id rather do that then burn, plus I personally dont think you could override human survival instinct by just standing there and burning alive, when there was a perfectly good window to jump out of.

I still remember where I was, and what I was doing during 9/11. Although it was a horrible tragedy what happened... I think at least a small part of everyone kind of enjoyed a change from the daily routine of life. If that sounds shallow, I'm sorry, but I still believe it is the truth.

[Artis]

i remember what i was doing as well.

[BuddhaMan]

I was already in Saudi Arabia...can you say 'lockdown' after the second plane hit?

[Artis]

you were in the terrorists home country. i bet it was pretty intense.

i was asleep when the first plane hit and contemplating sleeping through my classes that day in my dorm room. weird because at the time i almost always slept at my g/f's apartment. anyway, i woke up to my g'mother calling me on my cellphone and telling me to turn the tv on. i told her that we didnt have cable in our room and that the concrete walls prevented an antenna from working. she said a plane hit the WTC and i was like huh? i told her id get ready and call her back. i then took a shower wondering what was going on and then went down to the student union center where about 100 people were gathered around the giant big screen tv there and thats when i saw the 2nd plane crash into the other tower. there was a girl there whose dad was a pilot from one of the airlines and she kept calling her family but couldnt get a hold of anyone and she was just hysterical and finally had to be taken into someone's office so they could calm her down. everyone would go from shock and being quiet and listening to the tv to constant chatter about what was going on. i remember they were trying to figure out whether or not to cancel all classes that day but then decided against it. i went to my other classes and most professors just turned the tv or whatever on or radio or whatever and just said do whatever you want. i remember some professors decided to go ahead with their lectures and i remember thinking "how in the world could you concentrate right now."

[TsLBloody]

I remember that day also.

I was in school, junior year of highschool. 7:41 i think first plane hit (central time) i may be wrong? I dont believe many people were talking about it. But then all of a sudden i think our principle got on the speaker thing, for some reason the name of it escapes me. All class rooms are cable equiped in my school, and we were all watching CNN MSNBC etc etc, moving from class to class. No work all day just discussion of whats going on.
I do remember them reporting bombs went off at the WTC. I remember them just reporting the same things over, and over, and over again. Same tragic video of 2nd plane was also played out.

So bad all those people died

I'm pretty positive everyone was glued to the TV for a few days.